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  • Gwent Chartists Vol.31, p.41

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Description

Page 1:
Witness depositions
Difficult
[indented left]
Borough of
Newport
Monmouthshire
to wit
The Information and Depositions
of the Several Witnesses whose names are here
under written taken within the borough of Newport
in the sd county on oath before James Coles clerk
Octavius Morgan and William Brewer Esquires three
of her Majestys Justices of the Peace acting in and
________________This 14th day of Novr 1839
for the said Borough and County ^ on the Examination
and in the presence and hearing Samuel Victory
brought before us charged with having on 12th day
of October 1839 and divers other days and times at the
Borough of Newport aforesaid in the County aforesaid
directly and indirectly persuaded Edwd Dalton, John Clarke and
WmChambers these being private Soldiers in Her Majesty's
45th Regiment of Foot to desert contrary to the form of the
Statute in that case made and provided.

Edward Dalton Sworn States. I am
a Private in the 45 Regt. of foot
I have been so a 12 month. I
know the prisoner Saml Victory . I remember
the 10th Octr last the second
day we came to the Town
I remember on that day being
in this Town between 5 & 6 o'clock
in the evg opposite the Kings Head
I met a man in the
Street - he welcomed 3 of us
that were together to the Town
Victory was the man - he
appeared as if he had been drinking
I can't tell the conversation but
he took us over across the St.
he took us into a public house
I don't know the name of the
public house - he gave us something

1

Page 2:
Witness depositions
Difficult
to drink there He called for 4 glasses
of Rum one for himself and one
for us three. We each of us drank
our rum and water. There was
more ordered by the man Victory
another round was ordered in -
by him. we conversed together
this man commenced it - it
consisted of the Chartist business
he asked me some questions - he
told us to hold out in the
manly cause as they was holding
out - he was talking of the
Chartists and by that means
we would have half a crown
a day. He asked us if things
came to a point if we would
fire on them we said we should
do our duty like Soldiers.
he asked me if the people
turned out if the Soldiers would
fire upon them - we said
we should do our dutys like Soldiers
the Soldiers with me nor I
paid for the rum and
_we did not order it and I don't know who paid for it
water ^ we staid about 10 minutes
we parted at the Door and
came home to the Barracks
I have not seen him since
till this moment Edward Dalton

X [ left margin]

[vertically across the text]
Taken before
W Brewer
James Coles
Octavius Morgan

2

Page 3:
Witness depositions - testimony about William Victory
Difficult
X [in top l. margin alongside line 1]
the Pris.r was not quite drunk

___John Clarke
Sworn States
I am a private in the 45th Regt.
of foot. I have been so about
13 months - we are now Statd.
in Newport - we were here on
the 10th of last month - I was
making towards the Bridge about
5 or 6 in the ev-g of that day
& met a person near the Kings
Head - the pris.r Victory is
the person - he spoke first to
us - me and 2 of my brother Soldiers
EdwrdDalton and Wm Chambers -
he asked us if we would go and
have a glass of rum each - he
welcomed us to the Town it
was a day or two after we came
to Town - we agreed to go - he took
us to a sort of a dram shop on
the same side of the St. the
Kings Head - this side of the
Kings Head 4 Glasses of rum was
ordered in the dram shop a
Glass each - the Pris.r Victory gave
the order - a woman brought it
in. I have heard her name since
it is Ann Davis we drank the
rum and water a further order
was Given of a Glass each - Victory

3

Page 4:
Witness depositions
Difficult
gave that order - it was supplied
by Ann Davis - we drank that
there was a conversation between us
he said "if we are Soldiers to Hold
out and have half a Crown a day"
he asked us if a Row
was to break out if we would fire
upon them. we said it was the
duty of a Soldier to quell the
mob. I heard him say to hold
out as Soldiers as we do and you
will get half a crown a day -
he asked us "if any one
was to turn out if we would fire
on them - we were together a
little more than 10 min. I don't
know who paid for the Glasses
we did not pay for them - we
went out together. he asked us if
we would go down to his house
some time when we were at liberty
we did not ask him where
he lived- he said the Landlady
would tell us where he lived -
We met him on the Saty aft-wds
(2 days afterw-ds)
^it was about 6 o'clock getting
dusk down by the Canal he
asked if we would go and have
a pint of Beer - a comrade of mine
was with us named Robt Barr


[vertically across the text]

W Brewer
James Coles
Octavius Morgan

4

Page 5:
Witness depositions
Difficult
2
Barr is now a Pris.r for desertion
Bar was with me and heard the
conversation - he asked us to go
to a public and said that he
would be with us in a few minutes
he took us to the Door - the
public house is The Wheel - it is
on the Road going out of the
Town - we went in Barr with
me - we had 2 pints of Beer
The Prisr. did not come in he
came with me to the Door and
left us. The Pris.r told me his
name when I met him the
2nd time he told me his name
was Morgan or some such
name - we was coming out
and met him at the Door - me
and my comrade had made
up our minds to desert when we
met him and told him we had
made up our minds to desert.
Before we came to the Wheel
we went to the Spirit Shop we
had been at before. I asked
the woman at the Spirit Shop
if she could direct us to the
house of the man we met there
2 nights before. She told us she
did not know exactly where this
house was but to go down


5

Page 6:
Witness depositions
Difficult
Thos St and turn to the right in
going down we met the Prisr he asked
us to go and have some Beer - and having
drank the beer we went out and met
the Prisr again. We then told him we
wanted to desert and asked him if
he could find us any Clothes he said
it was a very serious matter - that
he didn't think he could. that
he had a good many children to
support or something to that
effect - he then left us and soon
came back - he went away and
said he would be with us again
in a few minutes - he returned and
brought an old paper Cap with him.
he said that was all he could give
us. After that we left him - we
determined we wod. not go in and
we journied on the road and met
2 young men who appeared to be
farmers - we had gone about a mile -
they asked us what we were doing
there we told them we intended to
desert and we wanted clothes - they
took us to a Barn in the country and brought us
clothes- we left the Barn in the
morning and went as far as
Blaenavon - we left our Military clothes
in the Hedge bottom - at Blaenavon

6

Page 7:
Witness depositions
Moderate
we enquired for work - the two farmers
took us to a public house
before we went to the Barn. I could
not point out the Barn again.
We had a pint or 2 of Beer at the
public house it was ordered by
the farmers. I did not hear them
call each others names. The public
house was on the side of the
H[igh]way - I don't know the sign -
it was about 1/2 past nine at
night. I might know the Landlord
or Landlady again if we was
taken to that house again - the
the house is above a mile from Newport
on the right hand side of
the Road in going from Newport.
I am quite sure we did not
get work at Blaenavon. my
comrade fell sick at Blaenavon
and I left him and came
back to Newport I arrived at
Newport on Monday evening.
I have seen Barr since he is
a prisr. I was afraid of the
consequences which induced me
to come back. I have seen the
Prisnr since - I saw Victory
the morning of the Row it was
after the Row - not in the mob
I came down in Mr Grey's party [*].
I saw him or some one very
much like him who smiled at
me. I doubt whether it was him

7

[* Lt Basil Gray]

Page 8:
Witness depositions- from John Clark
Difficult
I have been at his house but I have
not seen him since Morgan keeps
a Beer house. Morgan's wife said
something to me about Barr. I don't
know what. I am not certain what
it was. She asked me either how he was
or something like it. This was last
Monday was a fortnight. I did not
see Morgan in the house at all
I think Morgan's wife said How is
Barr but I am not sure whether
it was that or whether it was Has
Barr told anything I said no I am not
sure which of the two. I don't know
what I should say if I did not
understand a question. I asked him
for some tobacco the Monday evening
after the Row.

John Clark

Taken before us
W Brewer
James Coles
Octavius Morgan

Ann Davis Sworn States. I live in High
Street in this town. I keep a Spirit Shop [*] I know
the Prisoner Victory. I remember the Prisoner coming
to my Shop with some Soldiers. I remember
his coming to my Shop many times with Soldiers.
I remember his coming upon one occasion
with three Soldiers and ordering Rum for them.
He first ordered four Glasses of Rum one for
each of the Soldiers and one for himself -

W Brewer
James Coles
Octavius Morgan
[written vertically across the text]

8

[* Spirit Shop, High St., Npt]]

Page 9:
Witness depositions about William Victory
Difficult
I believe that having drunk the first four Glasses
the Prisoner ordered four other Glasses - to the best of
my knowledge they drank 8 Glasses between them-
All the Glasses that were ordered on that occassion
were ordered by the Prisoner I was not paid
for them at the time. I gave credit to the
Prisoner. I remember a Soldier calling soon
afterwards enquiring where the person who
treated them lived. He asked me if I could
tell where the person lived who treated them
I directed him as well as I could to Thomas
Street where I understood the Prisoner lived.
I did not understand at the time that it was
for the Prisoner Victory the soldier was enquiring.
I had an account against the prisoner Victory
at that time & I added the rum and water
to his account. Victory was very much in
the habit of coming to my shop & when he
came there he was mostly drunk. I
I remember his exclaiming very much
against what had happend at Birmingham
He has repeatedly treated the Soldiers at my house
Always brought them when he was Drunk-
The Rum & water has been paid for by Victory.

The mark of

Ann Davies

James Coles W Brewer

Octavius Morgan

9

Page 10:
Witness depositions - private in 45th regiment
Difficult
Robert Barr. I am a private in her Majestys
45th Regt. I belong to Cap[t] Stack's Compy now
stationed here I remember the even-g of the
12th of last month I remember about
5 or 6 o'clock in the even-g going down the
Main Street towards the Bridge I fell in
withJohn Clark who is a private in the
same Regt. John Clark told me about.
the man who had given him the rum
2 nights before that. He told me that
the man had himself and 2 others with
them into a Spirit Shop in that street.
I and Clark went down together towards
the Bridge & Clark met a man in his
way & he crosd the road to him in my
presence. At parting they shook hands He
told Clark to go & get a pint of Beer & he
pointed to the house where he was to get it
I did not hear any part of the conversation
between Clark & the man. I heard the man.
ask Clark where the two men were that had
been with him. Clark said they were at home
in the Barracks & saw the witness was a
Stranger belonging to the same Company
The Man said go in there point[in]g to the
door of the House. The House [?]I believe
was kept by a man of the name of Morgan


10

Page 11:
Witness depositions
Difficult
Clark went into the Beer house & I followed him
We drank 4 or 5 pints of Beer there. I saw
Morgan in the house before we went out
Morgan said it was near 9 o'Clock & that
it was time for me to go home. I and
Clark then went to the door & crosdover to
the other side of the Street. I saw Clark
talk to a man on the other side of the road
directly that we got out of the beer house house.
I do not know that Man it was a very dark
night. I believe it to be the same man as we
had seen before. I heard Clark & the man talk
together at the beer house door outside.
They were talking about the Chartists and
something that had taken place the night before.
I heard him say Could not the mob of
10.000 beat off the Soldiers from the tops of the
Houses with Bricks, Clark said if Soldiers
were called on they would do their duty. He
asked if the soldiers would fire on the Chartists
if there was a row in the Town. Clark said
they would do their duty which would be
to fire on them. I heard Clark say good night
friend I will see you again tomorrow. I
am not sure that the person I saw at the beer
house was the person I had before seen. From
his voice his welch voice I should think it
was the same person. His voice was similar
to the one I had heard before.


11

Page 12:
Witness depositions
Difficult
Q. SD 31. 41

I heard Clarke say to the man good
night friend, Clarke and I, then proceeded
along the road and deserted.
Robert Barr

Taken Before us
Octavius Morgan
James Coles
W Brewer

12

Page 13:
Witness depositions
Moderate
Chartist image missing [Typed in place of missing image]
?This does not indicate a missing document but the clerical misnumbering of the original documents

Page 14:
Witness depositions
Moderate
Benjamin Jefferys _Sworn - States
I am an Ironmonger. I know
the prisoner Victory - I remember
his coming to my Shop some
time ago since the time of Vincents -
being first committed. He said
he wanted to see some pistols
I said You want them for the
Chartists - I always thought
Prisoner was a Chartist he said
"I am not a Chartist when I
told him for what he wanted
___I refused to sell him pistols
them ^ prisoner said he could
_______would have
get them & ^ the Charter too
he went away grumbling &
left the Shop.
Benjamin Jefferys

Taken Before us

James Coles
Octavius Morgan
W. Brewer
The Prisoner being called upon for
his defence and being duly cautioned
states - I saw them three soldiers
as I was coming from my work
I did not know their names

14

Page 15:
Witness depositions
Moderate
they belonged to the 45th. they said they was
from Windsor I said they were welcome
to Newport. I asked them if they would
accept of a Glass after their long march -
we drank two Glasses each and then walked
out of the House - I did not see them
no more until I saw them in the Street
some time afterwards, soon afterwards.
I only knew the face of one I did not
know the others. I have not seen them
since, until I saw them here - I have no
more to say The X mark of
Samuel Victory

Taken Before us

W Brewer
James Coles
Octavius Morgan

all the Witnesses bound over in ‚£50
to give Evidence. Prisoner to take
his Trial at the next Quarter Sessions

15

Page 16:
Witness depositions
Easy
[across 2nd fold of page]
14 Novr 1839
(36)

The Queen
agt

Saml.. Victory

For Inducing
Soldiers to desert

Depositions.

[in faint pencil]
Himself _____100
James Evans__ 50
______________50


Borough of
Newport

[across 4th fold - stamped vertically
along right-hand edge]
Q S D 31 0041

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