Interviewer Sian Green: So you mentioned a bit earlier about, it sounds like local produce is something you're quite passionate about, is that for sustainability reasons, economic reasons, what’s drawn you to that?
CHT: Two things, I think all those that you mentioned it definitely has to be economical to make it work. There is an economic demand, there's a local demand as well. But of course the problem comes as you're competing with’ I think it's product selective as what I'll put to that one, whereas if you can get cauliflowers brought in from France for £0.10 each, why are you going to convince somebody to buy a Gower cauliflower which needs to be £2.00 each. So I think it's very specific and what we do a lot of the restaurants and shops and stuff say yeah we want local produce, low mileage, all the rest of it, it ticks, all the boxes. But I think in reality it is obviously, especially now things are so difficult for a lot of these restaurants, that economically that they have to cut their costs wherever they can. So I think you know with no disrespect to them, but also to us in terms of managing to maximize, there is this sort of conflict which hopefully we'll find a way through to make it sensible for everybody, either by growing something totally different or growing super fresh stuff that is actually on the doorstep on the day it's picked. But I think it's more collaborative thing and that's what you've been working on that with these restaurants
LHT: I think also the sustainable farming scheme that we're waiting to come out from Welsh Government will have an impact here because at the moment the subsidy structure for farmers doesn't really benefit people like us who are trying to do the right thing. But hopefully once the Welsh Government launched that new subsidy system and then I think it's 2025. We hope there'll be more encouragement for farmers to move in a sustainable direction that's definitely coming down the track but we are not quite there yet.
CHT: I think the basic thing of cutting fertilisers and cutting chemicals we definitely want to go that route and that's the whole idea of bringing back a mixed farm system, you know. With our Welsh black cattle on the Cliff, we have a deal with NRW National Resource Wales, where we're using our cattle to clear areas of bracken and gorse that are totally got out of control, and they're being used basically as the natural way to suppress that and to allow all the species that have been sort of hidden, if you like, over years and years to actually flourish again. And that seems to be hugely successful. So it's changing the farm to suit the environment and hence the reason really for looking to take value from the farm, you know in different ways to make it sustainable.