This oral history was collected and edited by the George Ewart Evans Centre for Storytelling as part of the Bawso Stories project.

The Bawso Stories project is an innovative partnership project between George Ewart Evans Centre for Storytelling (University of South Wales), specialist support organisation Bawso and National Museum Wales. This project was funded by National Lottery Heritage Fund.

Consent has been given for this story to be shared
a. In the archives and collections of Amgueddfa Cymru (Museum Wales) 
b. On websites, e.g. The People’s Collection Wales, Bawso, The University of South Wales, Amgueddfa Cymru, etc. 
c. On social media, e.g. Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, etc. 
d. In written publications, e.g. project reports, journal articles, etc. 
e. In any other uses in line with the project aims and objectives 

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Interview with Cynthia (Bawso Stories)

Duration: 00:33:40

My first question is, if you would like to tell me a little bit about… as somebody who has come to Wales, what you thought about Wales when you first arrived here?

Yeah.  I would say that I always, Wales here, I never lived in London.  But people always gave me a London story how things are a lot harder, a lot of things.  But I’ve seen that Wales here, is peaceful place, and they are also lovely people.  I would say that violence, it is not there.  The way our children go to school, the way the teachers take care of them, even in the work place how my colleagues we’re just living together, just talk together.  Even if we go for break, we sit together, we eat.  I think Wales here is a good place, a quiet place and lovely and supporting.  I would say that Wales is a good place because my colleagues in London, some of them are living in Milton Keynes, they always give how things are, rent here is more…lower than there, it is higher than here and it’s good.  I would say Wales is good.

And has your relationship to… I don’t know how long you have lived in Wales?

I would say this year, May 14th, I will be five years. 

So, you’ve lived here quite a while. 

Yes, five years.

Does it feel different now after five years, than it did when you first came?

Yeah, I would say it’s different now, especially the rent, it’s higher.  The time we arrived here, I think I was living with my ex.  The house we were living was £550, five something, but now it’s higher.  The rent is high.  You see - that time I arrived, 2019, if you take £50 or £30, go to shopping, your trolley would be full.  But now, no.  It’s costly, and everything is high now.  Higher than the time I came.  Yeah.

What about when you look around you, is there anything that you see that makes you think, ‘that’s very Welsh?’

Yeah.  What I see that is Welsh?  If I want to compare Wales city and my country where I am coming from, I would say yes, everything is different from where I’m coming from.  So, I think the plan, the leaders know how to just put everything nice for the people. 

So, when you’re… is there anything you can describe… so, when I come back… so, if I’m coming from England to Wales, I go oh the shape of the hills is different and I know that I’m in Wales.  Is there anything like that, you know that you’re in Wales? 

So, I just came from my country to here, so I don’t know much about London or other things.  Milton Keynes, I also went there for a visit for three days.  I saw the buildings there are different to here, but I’m living here so everything… especially the buildings when I came… one building at the train station, it was quite nice and the museum, I went there.  It was good.  I was happy. I went there free.  If you went there they don’t say come and pay this, pay this.  I was amazed going to museum it was nice for me.  Okay, me, obviously this was amazing for me.

That’s really interesting.  Was there something in particular in the museum that you enjoyed seeing or that you enjoyed?

I went there, is it Caribbeans? The time they were here, they put their pictures and their stories there.  I saw the pictures there, their experiences, for us.  I was happy that this country had also remembered the Caribbeans, those who came here, began their life.  I was happy about that.

That’s really great.  Thank you.  So, would you feel comfortable to talk about home?  Is it okay to talk about home, what home means to you?

Where I’m coming from?

Well, both.  When you think of… that’s interesting, isn’t it?  When you think of home, do you think where you’re coming from?  Do you think here, or do you think both? 

Maybe both.  I would just compare both.  See where I’m coming from, I’m coming from a large family.  But the large family, it was just good.  Example, if I would say, me I don’t like it, but the way I’ve grown up and met how my father’s or my grandfather’s, the way, you know. now, I think everything is changing.  Marrying young is now limited.  But the time back, again like 15 years, 16 years, they will just call you, we want you to marry this man.  You can’t say no, you have to agree with your parents.  If you say no, I will not marry this person, it’s like you are a shadow.  You do not respect your family.  So, that was terrible.  It was bad.  But now, I think it’s now changing a bit and a life back home is about how they train children is different to here.  What I see is a child five years, four years, a child will always speak about his mind, what he see.  Your mother do something that you don’t like, here, the child will say “mummy, no, no, no”.  But back home, you can’t.  You can’t.  If an elderly person says something, the child will feel that, no, what they said is not right, but you can’t just tell your mother or father no.  But here, the freedom is here for the children to just say what they like.  I’ve seen that.  We are also, we are beginning to see, small, small back home, because the way they treat us, the way we grow back home, like here, you can call my name if you are older than me, you can call my name.  But back home, if somebody is older than me, I can’t get to call your name, I can’t mention your name.  No, I have to show respect.  Let’s say mama, or somebody calls me “mama”, because I’m older than the person, but here, no, all of you, I get to call your name.  Back home, no.  If I meet somebody here, I have to add the respect.  But here, the person will just call your name.  That’s why we Africans… they say… white people always say that everybody in Africa is our sister.  It is true, it’s the way we grow there.  To a man I would just say, oh “brother”.  Again, a woman, I would say “sister”.  Older man, or older woman, I would just say “mama”.  But here, no.  That’s what I’ve seen.  I’ve seen the different African culture in white people, I’ve seen that.

Even the children also see the difference.  That’s what I’m saying. Africa… the children here in the school, they are more happy.  Back home, if a child made a mistake, you did something wrong in school, a teacher can cane you, a teacher can beat you.  But here it’s not.  It’s not.  But now I think it will be changing back home too.  You’re supposed to come to school, eight o clock and you came nine o’clock, maybe the seniors start punish you, they can give you some punishment.  You came late.  You’re supposed to be in the school at eight o clock and why you came late.  So, in school, it’s different back home then here. Yeah.

Can you tell me about anything that makes you feel comfortable?  So, you get home from work and you have that, oh I’m comfortable now.  What is it for you that makes you feel comfortable in your day?

A lot.  Back home maybe if you are government worker, you can work and come home, but if you are a farmer, you can get… from farm, you work hard, you come back home.  You have to cook, do everything before you go to bed.  But here, so if I want to start my work, I always prepare something or cook different kind of food, put in the fridge. So, after work if I just come, I’ll take my bath, I’ll eat and just go to bed and rest.  I watch African movies, or I just sit down and relax more and go to bed, that’s it.  So, it’s different here than back home.

And the African movies, that’s a hobby that you do for fun, is watching African cinema?

Yes.

Can you tell me a bit about that?  Is there a film that you particularly love?

Yeah, but I always say that it’s always a movie that I watch, a story… a movie I always watch is something that I will watch, a story, the way that people live, the way that somebody is suffering, the way it ended, and I pick something there for myself.  That’s the only movie that I will watch African movies.  Something that I will just watch that end, I know that yes, something in the movie touch me and I’m happy about that.  That’s in movies.

Lovely, thank you. 

You’re welcome.

So, if we were to think about… I don’t know how much you’ve had chance to think about this in advance, but if we were to think about… is there a place that’s really important to you?

A place?

Yeah.  Now, or here, or in your childhood.  Just a place that is somewhere that you love.

Yeah, I like… I went to the beach twice.  The first one I went to it with Bawso people. Someone was doing his birthday, so we went there.  I was amazed, I was happy about the sea, how people… and the food we ate.  The seaside is good for me.  I’m happy about the seaside.

And if I were to go there now, what would I be able to see?

To see?

Yeah, if you were to describe it to me?

I don’t know how to describe it. What would you see?  A lot of people went with your friends, different food.  We went there.  They do is it kebab?  Yes, they came with the charcoal and everything.  We roasted a lot of meat and other things.  Something with food, we share and the sea… I don’t know how to explain.  I like the seaside with the breeze, the waves.  It’s always calming.  It was nice view for me.  So, the second time, I went for a birthday I was happy.  The second time I just decided to just go there and sit down for the breeze and everything, so I was happy.  It was a nice place for me.

And you said it’s the air, it’s the smell of it?

Yeah. 

What are you smelling in the air?

Just the fresh air is coming… I don’t know how to explain.

It’s fresh.

Refresh my mind, yeah.  Yeah, it was good.

I love the sea as well.  I love going to swim.  It’s cold but it’s great.  Did you do any swimming when you were there?

No.  I don’t know how to swim.

You can paddle, just walk in.

I don’t know.  I never.  I always go there, sit down, just imagine the waves… the creature, the wind… I don’t know how to just explain it.  I was amazed. 

We’re very lucky here, although very cold.  It can be very cold. 

Oh, OK, OK. A lot of people will, it’s a nice place.  Wales is a nice place.  It’s peaceful, especially where I’m living now.  It’s quiet.  Yes.  If you come to work, no noise, the place is quiet.  First I was living in, but there it was noisy.  The quiet is good. Everywhere.

So, the quiet and the calm and the fresh air is very important for you?

Yeah.  Even where I’m living now, I’m living in a flat.  You can just see… you can see everything, the sea, everything.  I always come out and just watch. How things are.

Lovely. That’s really nice. 

There you see everything.  You see everything, it’s good.

Beautiful, thank you.  So, one of the questions which I wanted to ask, which I don’t know if you have a particular moment in mind, but is there a point that you’d like to tell me about where things changed?  Was there an important change where… I like to think about it like a magical moment where everything got better or different or was changed for you?

I don’t know if… the way things are going, I don’t know if everything changed for the better but the way it is going, I can just say something about that. I can say something about that, but if not, everything is just changing higher, higher, higher.  If you are thinking about future, how can our children live, or how our generation is going, it’s something that is in my mind, thinking about that.

About what will happen for future generations?

Future generation.  The way things are changing, I don’t know.  Things are just changing, I don’t know.  I don’t know how to explain that.

No, no, no.  So, when you’re thinking about when your children are grown up and what they’ll be living in.  Do you have hopes for what it will be like for them?

Hope like… I don’t understand that one?  Do I have hope?

Do you have hope or a dream for what it would be like?

I’m a Christian.  I believe in God, so I always think that God will change things for the better, for the future generation.  That’s the only one I am seeing. If not, the way things are going, sometimes I will think, God will change it, but if it’s going to harder, harder, I think the generation coming… I don’t know how they are going to do it, I don’t know.

Do you want to talk a bit about your faith.  You said you’re a Christian and that’s important to you, is that something you’d like to talk a little bit about?  Are you part of the church?

Yeah, I’m a Catholic.  I’m a Catholic. We have Christians, some are Catholics.  Basically, Christians, we are following Jesus, but what us Catholics believe, like I would say Anglican and not believing that much, and Methodists are, are also different part, but my side, I’m a Catholic.  The way I believe, if I have something disturbing me or something is worrying me, what I believe, I always go to church with my rosary, with my rosary.  That’s my belief.  I know if I go there, sit down and do the rosary, the hail Mary, by the time I finish everything, or I read, I take my Bible, go to read somewhere, I’ll be happy that my mind is… I refresh my mind and everything.  That’s my belief in God, in the religion that I have.  So, I believe that one is strong… Catholic rules are strong for me.  It’s something that helps me.

And are you part of a community?  Are there people that you’ve met through –

Yeah. Africans are there. So, we have African community, after mass, we go together, we chat, or we do something that… the Priests always share the first week of the month, maybe Indians are there, the white people are there, Africans too. So the father always makes us, we meet the first week of the month, Africans are coming with something, we can prepare some African dishes and everybody will go to the hall there, we enjoy, we meet together and we chat.  If it is Indians, Indians will always come with… their mains and everything, we share together.  Oh, I forgot these people …A different country… I forget the country, but it was good that you have community there to just meet and chat and do everything, but I just move to this… I’m not in some association yet.   

You mentioned there about sharing food together.  And you talked about that a few times.  You mentioned the birthday where you shared food on the beach as well. 

Yeah.

Is that eating together, something that is important for you?

Yeah, coming together and sharing food is something that is good.  Yes.  You know each other much… like the way I went there, it’s a Bawso, somebody doing a birthday.  It’s the day that I met a lot of Bawso people who also came here.  So, we are happy, we talk together, we eat, it was good.  Some came with rice, so a lot of different food.  Some came with salad and vegetables and mixed… it was good.  It was good for us, yes.  One lady makes these spring rolls.  It was good.  I had rice and it was – mmm.

And it is that being together with other people that the food is important for you?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Every country with their food, it is good to taste. 

Is there something that you would share?  What would you make?

No, that day, you know, so I couldn’t.

But is there something that if you were going to… what would you make if you were going to share food?  What is your favourite thing to make?

In Africa, we have our doughnuts.  We call it back home bofrot, so it’s bread flour, you mix into it like this.  If I was from earlier, I would make that one and go.

Thank you. So, we’ve talked a lot about my questions.  What would you… is there anything that you would like people to know about you and your experience of Wales or Bawso or community here? 

Bawso community is a good community.  It’s a good community.   So, I think Bawso is a good association.  My experience is good…but if Bawso was not there, I think now I could be in Africa again.  So, I’m happy about that, the way that Bawso always help people.  If that support was not there, I could be in Africa.  So it’s good.  There’s experience that I’ve seen everywhere, if there’s somebody with a problem like I faced, I always mention Bawso, so it’s a good thing for me. A good experience. I told Bawso, the way they’ve trained me, the way they’ve talked to me, I was happy. 

That’s really great to hear.  And if we were to describe…we’ll finish with…can you tell me… if you were to say the thing that you’re really proud of, is there something about yourself that you’re really proud of and that you would like everybody to know?

Yeah.  I’m proud of myself… I would say that even the English I’m speaking, I know it’s not correct English, I would say that.  I would say, my background…Our fathers are like, education, no!  I had no education, my father was a farmer, so a girl’s education is not important.  But a boy education is good.  A girl, if you send a girl to school, if the girl grows up, has to marry, blah, blah, blah, but now I think now everything changes.  So, my education level is just classes, and I dropped out.  But I am proud of myself that I know I can’t read much, but I can read… I can also stand on my feet and do something, support myself, but I am proud that I’m working, taking care of myself. My mother is back in Africa.  I work.  I always send money back home to take care of my mother. So, I’m here working, supporting them.  So, because of that, I’m proud of myself.  I’m not putting my burden to somebody.  So, I would say that I’m proud of myself for that.  Yes. 

That’s fantastic and your English is really great.  It is really good.

OK, I would say that maybe my English is not perfect.

No it is very good.

Thank you.

I can’t speak any other languages.  I can only speak English.  I’m always impressed when somebody can speak more than one language.  I think it’s really amazing.  My children can speak two languages, I can’t.  They speak Welsh and English, I can’t.

Are you from Wales, from this country?

So, I live here now, but I come from England.  So, I came to Wales a long time ago, 20 years ago to Wales.  No, 30 years ago I came to Wales. 

30?

I came to go to University here, but I grew up in England.  But my children were born in Wales and grew up speaking Welsh. 

That’s good.

But I think your English is very good.

Okay, I thought maybe –

No, it’s very good.  That’s been really fascinating to hear.  Thank you so much for sharing all that. 

OK. Thank you too.