Dhiren Patel was born in Kampala in 1962. He was young when the expulsion happened, and was most saddened that he wasn’t able to say goodbye to friends. His family did not stay at a resettlement camp but lived with his uncle in Essex.  

He came to live in Wales after he finished university, as his parents decided to open a shop there, and has lived here since. He returned to Uganda in early 2024, on his son’s request, and visited his old primary school – East Kololo Primary School – where he felt a deep sense of connection with the people and places he visited.

Transcript of interview with Dhiren Patel by Robin Chaddah-Duke and Radha Patel
 

Dhiren Patel: I came to UK while I was still in primary school, so what I remember of it is very limited and vague, but I remember mostly my school and where I lived and some of the friends that I remember from there. Life was actually very nice. We visited Entebbe. I remember frequently the Lake Victoria. And yeah, I remember just positive things about it. Until we had to leave suddenly.

Robin: Where did you guys land in England? And what was your…what was your sort of life trajectory and how did you end up in Wales?

Dhiren Patel:

Initially we lived there with my uncle in Essex because they'd come over a few years before we had done. So we stayed over there first and then I think…well for a few years as soon as we arrived, my dad got a job in a supermarket and my mum started working in a jigsaw factory I think it was. So, that was the initial bit and we just started going to school. So my experience of that was, although I spoke English, because in Uganda schools were taught in English, I had difficulty understanding the Essex accent. So, several… I still remember now…several times you know, my school friends would have to say things several times before I understood what they were saying. Although I was speaking English initially it was just hard for me to understand. But anyway, we just got it in time and adapted to it, and everybody adapted to it so it was fine. And you know then then after a while, well we started school, got on with that. My dad started…again with my uncle I think he was a shop in in Wales. And that took off a bit more we then thereafter moved to Wales. Well, first my mum and dad moved to…because I was in uni by then and my mum and dad moved there and then after finishing my studies I moved to Wales as well. My dad started a shop here with my uncle and he was going back and forth so he, you know, Monday to Friday they were in Wales and he’d come back to weekends and back to, you know, to Essex. But again, that couldn't carry on for very long. So then we, you know, best thing was to move to Wales. So initially we moved back you know because by my dad had a shop here and that's…the move started off from that.

I think the first one was in Kenfig Hill. That's going back a long way. I only vaguely remember it, but yeah, the first one I think was in Kenfig Hill.

Robin: Do you remember any of that process of leaving.

Dhiren Patel: Well, the process was again at the time, I mean, I obviously found out more about it afterwards. In fact, I found most of it out it afterwards. But when I was a little kid in school, I just remember it being…. I was going to school as normal, but suddenly midweek there was no school and I like.. and we were and my dad said, well, we're going now. I wasn't quite clear as to well, it's not school holidays. It's not end of term. We're in the middle of the week. But OK, we're going somewhere. I didn't quite get it. But you know, we were going somewhere. We're going together as a family, so I thought, OK, it's a bit like a holiday to me initially. And then I realised we weren’t going back. That was the thing that I remember most that we left, and I didn't get to say bye bye to any of my friends and that's for me personally, that's the big memory. Leaving suddenly for apparently reasons that I didn't understand at the time. And then finding out you’re not going back and realising well, that's that. 

All everybody you knew there, you don't know anymore because they've gone somewhere else as well. So initially that was my experience. I mean that's my main memory of it. It was lovely growing up in the first few years of my life and Uganda. But the main memory was leaving suddenly and not saying bye bye to anybody. You know that was that to me that was that was that was a big thing. I know it was a much more serious thing when you really find out what was going on there because then I found out, you know people, some people lost their lives in the process of the military coup and stuff like that. So, we luckily were able to get away and we should just count ourselves lucky.

Radha:  When you did go back? What was it like?

Dhiren Patel:  Well, I had no plans of going back, yeah. And to me, Uganda was like a dim and distant past now. Because I grew up in this country and I was quite fine with that, and to me it was just a distant memory now. And it was my son who said, well you were born there, don't you want to visit there again. I said, well, it didn't occur to me really cause…now I put it so far back in my mind going back wasn't really a big, you know, a thing for me. But he mentioned, well, you were born, so let's go and visit. So we went there this year. It was just…it was. I'm so glad. Thank God he suggested that because it was a lovely experience going back. Uganda has moved along quite a long way since, you know, since back in ‘72 and things are much more peaceful because I know it's he's had his troubled history ever since the military coup there’s been various ups and downs in the country. But now it seems to be a much more settled, peaceful country and people they seem to appreciate the peace as well. So yeah, we were very nicely welcomed by, you know, by the local people there. And it was just a positive experience going back.

Well, the plan was to just travel around and do a little tour, which a local company organises for you. There was some safari and we also made a point of…visited a couple of safari parks which was which was a big thing for us. But we also made a point of trying to see if I could find my school. Because I still remembered my school, it was East Kololo Primary school. And we made a point of sort of staying over in Kampala for a day, which weren't expected to stay because that's not part of the tour, but we added an extra day on for that and it happened to be from when we were staying the school wasn't that far. It was quite manageable distance to get there. So we visited and I remembered the classroom that I used to sit in. So, again, memories came back, the things that I’d never not thought about for decades.

You know, I remember oh as you said, that's the classroom. And I used to sit in that row back there and we used to have assembly just over there. So I remember all these things just came back. So I give you…It was a nice, yeah reminiscing about that.  Sadly, it's a much more run down, you know, for whatever reasons and but yeah, it's…the school's still there, you know, 50 plus years on  - so it's still there. Yeah. And once we got to the school, we realised that, well, I remembered that where we used to live wasn't that far from the school, so once we got to the school we just googled where I remember living. And because I remembered the road name. And the driver said, yeah, yeah, that's not so far we can get there and we can still carry on with the rest of the journey. So, we went to the house and the house is still there as well. And you knocked on the door and you know I said, well, can we look around? And they were quite welcome and they said, yeah, of course, look around. And I said 52 years ago I used to live here. So they said, yeah, come on in take a look, you know? So we went and they let us in as well. Looked around and  I remembered where I used to play and we looked, you know, we walked inside the house. I remember most of the rooms there.

So yeah, it's again as you as you went around more memories came back. So to me, those were the two bonuses that we weren't really expecting because we were expecting to go to see, you know, the travel around the country and see that safari parks and that sort of thing. But these two things were like add-ons, which were special in their own way. Because I remember, you know, oh that used to be the kitchen. Yeah I remember my mum cooking there. And that used to be the outside area where I used to play and the garden used to be…well the garden is still there. So just nice memories, seeing all you know…all these things. But also to see the changes that have happened because at the time 50 plus years ago, that was the only house there and all near that road. And now there's a Multiplex cinema and a mall just across the road from there. So you know, the changes are quite dramatic as well. And  where there used to be an open field, there's this Multiplex cinema.

So again and it's remembering what I remembered and seeing the changes. It was just nice. It was also special, like the people who were at the house, quite, quite welcoming. You all used to live in here come on in and take a look. So you know it's just positive feelings about it. Because we were total strangers to them. You know, we were just walking off the street saying, oh, can I take a look around and say yes, come on in, you know, not just look around outside, but come on in the house as well. So, you know, it's nice to be welcome like that when we are now total strangers to the place, so it's just nice to be welcomed like that.

Robin: And surely like after being told you had to leave by what felt like, not necessarily the Ugandan people, but something that was out of everyone’s control - for people to welcome you back to you home that you were removed from.

Dhiren Patel: Yeah. No, definitely. Yeah. No, that, that was the positive thing. I mean, it was almost like the military coup happened, due to Idi Amin. I mean he had a lot of negative impact on the local people for a long time. But now people don't see that as… they see the people who left as... well they're quite happy to welcome us back. You know, we were travelling along one of the places and we stopped. We were stopping and just happened to speak to a taxi driver and we're just going along we're going for a walk my son and I and he started talking to us. How are you and where you've been? How long you been in? I said, yeah, I remember this and I actually was born here. He was quite surprised so…and he started calling me uncle after that. So you know, talking to total strangers, so they were quite happy people were very open and positive to us. So you know, that's what I came away with.

Robin: In the grand scheme of all these stories of migration that we have, and especially now currently like all this violence and stuff that we're seeing, if you think about what you would like people to learn from, from your experience of being expelled from a place and having the opportunity to go back and be welcomed again and that sort of perhaps…the feelings that might have existed between Ugandans and Asians, and to find out, you know that that stuff doesn't really exist, that they were quite welcome to have you back. Have you got anything to sort of summarise that people can learn from that?

Dhiren Patel: In a nutshell, I would say to what you’re saying there's more opportunity of getting along with other people than we all often realise. Because I suppose, the local Ugandans could have seen the Asians being expelled as a good thing, because usually I think…if I remember right and things that I’ve heard afterwards that there was a sort of, I don't know, some sort of a hierarchy where most of the manual labour was done by the Ugandans and people in management or business or whatever were either white or brown. And now there are thriving businesses that are run by Ugandans, local people, you know. And so they were always quite capable of it, it's just that that separation was there in the past, not just there, but it was in several other countries in in Africa. But that needn't be that way. You know, so there's more pluses to be had by getting along rather than not.

Robin: How do you find life in Wales?

Dhiren Patel: Great. You know, I've lived in, you know, London. I've lived in Wales, I would say generally, Welsh people are just more friendly and like if I go for a walk…total stranger will say hello to you. Good morning. How was your day, that sort of thing? Whereas when I used to go for a walk in London, people just…if you…there's no eye contact. I remember sometimes when I used to go in the tube, because I worked for five years in London as well, and initially in the tube nobody makes eye contact. And if you if you say good morning to somebody, they just look past you as if you’re not there. So, ok, that's just…it's just, maybe that's just the London way. But in Wales everybody will say hello to you. Today, if you go…if you went for a walk and you met somebody, they say hello to you. Yeah. So I just found…I just…I just found it much more friendly place.