Herminder Kaur Kaler was born in Tabora, Tanzania in 1948. She came to Caerphilly in 1971, when she married Channi Singh Kaler, where she worked at the Caerphilly Miner’s Hospital. Before this, she fought family expectations to study nursing in Nottingham, arriving in the UK in 1967. 
 

Transcript of interview with Herminder Kaur Kaler by Perminder Dhillon and Robin Chaddah-Duke

Perminder: 3rd of July [2024] Perminder and Robin, interviewing Heminder Kaur Kaler in Caerphilly, So Herminderji, where were you born? Herminder: in Tabora in Tanzania. 1948. Perminder: And when did you arrive in Caerphilly? Herminder: Oh, we arrived in ‘71. Perminder: And how did that happen? Herminder: Because I got married to him. Okay. So he was living in Cardiff because he came here in ‘62 for university and, I came to London ‘67 because my sister was getting married and, ‘67 I started my nursing in Nottingham because I liked, my uncle was living there, I know there and decided, well, I did for six months I did, short and typing evening classes, which I couldn't type. I just couldn't take short. So I said to my uncle, I do not want to become a secretary. I said, I rather want to do nursing. The whole family was against it. But I was determined that I was going to do nursing. So, I saw the - because my cousin was living in Brighton, a very small hospital, not much for training there. So when I went to my uncle, I said, why don't you go and see the hospital here? And I really liked the hospital. And then so I joined the nursing school there. So I did my nursing and went off for my brother's wedding in Tabora And, afterwards, my uncle said you got to get married otherwise you can't go back, you know, and I said I don't want to get married, he said no you have to get married. Channi had gone for holidays as well so my parents knew each other anyway, so somebody said they’re looking for a girl that’s what happened, we got married there and then came back here. I started my nursing, but my parents - the whole family was against nursing. They said, oh, no, don't go for nursing. And I said, no, I want to be a nurse. And then started my nursing in Nottingham.  So then I went home, my brother was getting married into Tabora I mean, Nairobi, but I couldn't get a visa there to go so I missed a wedding anyway. And then stayed there nearly a year in Tabora before I got married and I came to Cardiff, and we they stayed in Cardiff and I liked Cardiff, I liked miners, like Welsh people, didn’t like English people because it was terrible, when I did nursing in, you know, because people are quite rude actually. And then I said, right, because I wasn't going to stay in Nottingham anyway, you see, and things changed anyway. So I came here and I loved it here and Welsh people are just like Indian people, you know, like your family. I mean, my sister was living in London, you know, and, my cousin was visiting in Brighton and, but we kept to... I was in Cardiff, you see. So then my sister moved to Canada and, so I had no, my own family I mean, I had my cousin you know. And then I said that I started nursing here, then stayed here and my neighbours were very nice, looked after my kids when I was working and said, you can come home. And on very short notice, whenever the hospital would be like please come down and my neighbours never minded. They were all Welsh neighbours because here we were only three Indian girls in the hospital. Actually, and I enjoyed my nursing here as well. Robin: So maybe if we go back a little bit to you, a family comment you said Welsh and Indian people are very similar. Herminder: They are. 
Then when I came to nursing, when I started in Nottingham because there are a lot of, West Indians because there are lots of them, they are nurses as well. But I did find a lot of the patients were quite rude sometimes you see to Indian people. They were very few Indian nurses from India, actually you know, but that were people you can't answer back anyway. And even they were a bit... you know, because in those days things have changed now. But I mean, 60s, 70s, you know, what it was like, you see, you know, and it was quite but the nursing was good because we used to travel to different hospital for two, two months. And we do all the trainings like we go to the children’s hospital for children, women's hospital for women and the maternity you know, they're all different and so from different places. We even worked in the convalescent homes you see that the training was that good you see but when I came here, it was a small hospital.They acted nothing like that because they were 20 years behind, you know. And they said, which would you like to work? I said I would like to work in a surgery, that's what I liked the surgery you know. And they had a very small place, they said they got a shed surgery and, so I, they put me in a children’s ward, it was fine it was mostly tonsils and things like that, you know. But then they moved me to gynea ward and I stayed, well, I stayed there, you see, because I liked it, but that was the only one that was ran nicely and everything, you know, I enjoyed it anyway. I did give my exam in medical but medicine... I’d rather be surgical than medical nurse you see. And when I came here I just stayed in gynae ward afterwards.And it was like a nice family life you know all the girls were you know... even now we still see, we still see each other we always meet for coffees and things. You know, most of us are retired, you know, and the ward sisters are very nice, they were like my mother to me, you know. So, yes, I did enjoy my time in until I retired. Perminder: So which hospital was it again? Herminder: Caerphilly Miners Hospital. But now it's gone because they moved. But Channi’s father was living with us and he fell down and broke his hip. Looked after him then you see and it would have been very hard for me to work in the hospital, I’ll look after him as well you see. Perminder: So when you came here, newly married, newly into your, new career, which the family didn't approve of, what was life, like for you as a woman. Herminder: Here in Caerphilly, I mean, Cardiff, when we came, because I was, at that time looking what to do really, you know, to join... the Heath hospital was just starting, I think, you know, and we just moved here, and I said, oh, this hospital is nearby so I applied here and started, because we didn't have a Gurudwara here at all so I didn't know many people, I only knew one family because Channi knew them because he stayed there, as a lodger you see, when he first came and, otherwise, I didn't know until we started the Gurudwara in Pearl Street, no in the Welsh school on the Sundays. So I started going there and that's how I came to know loads of people. Then we just got quite together, you see our new Gurudwara was... we had an old church and all the men were there took everything out, you know, and, and that's it. You just had a good group of ladies there, helped in the kitchen, you know. Well, spent my time with them and the most of them, I used to go over the dances and everything with Channi and the hockey team, you know, and we used to make sandwiches for the team on Saturdays, everybody used to take turns, and, the hospital ran a lot of parties with the girls, you know, I used to be there and when my children were born, joined parent’s committee in the school. So we used to do quite a lot for the children you know funding and of these things, whenever they went on a trip, a few parents had to go you know so you had to go there. And that’s what we used to do, you know.  And I had a very nice leisure centre, keep fit classes so met a lot of girls there, you know. So we going there. I mean, so that's, that's what it is. Perminder: So you had your two children here? Herminder: I had my two children, miner’s hospital, you know, one born in ‘75 and the other one born in ‘80 here. Perminder: And how do they feel? How do they feel? Herminder: They call themselves Welsh. Oh, yes. Definitely. My son’s if you say, they say they’re from Wales. They’re Welsh, they’ll always say their Welsh.  Because when we go to London somewhere because they have accent, you see, and we'll say, oh, listen to him. And my youngest son always makes fun of the people when they come down, when they say, what do you say? ‘Woter’, he always goes on, you know. Yeah. No, no, my kids, they both. Robin: Do they wear a turban? Herminder: No, because when we came here, there's no Indian families here, you see, and I didn’t... I see a lot of kids suffering, you see. And I didn't want my kids to suffer picking up on them. You see this? They didn't. And I say when they grow up, they can, if they want the turban, they can have it, it'll be their choice, you see, because it is very difficult that you don't have so many. Some people do suffer children, but they don't say it, you see you know. Yeah, but I did have short hair myself, you know, because in olden days, the sisters, the hospital used to be very strict, you know, I mean, you have to really tie your hair, you know, no jewellery and things and nowadays, if you see, if you see, the girls wear so much jewellery and everything, you know, nail varnish they are allowed and things like that. Olden days, you were only allowed to wear your wedding ring, no engagement rings and no watches, no bracelet, nothing because of hygiene. 
 And now it's all gone out of the... I mean, there are not that strict anymore now, you see, like if you see girls wearing five earrings there you see  because if you see the girls wearing's chains, that is quite dangerous. Some patients can go really mad, that did happen in the hospital, he got her chain or you know, okay, but things are dangerous. But people wear it nowadays, they aren’t strict at all, you see. We used to have an apron, a real uniform. If you go out to the hospital, you always have to have a cape on, you couldn’t go on without a cape. But now you see in the town they're all wearing their uniforms because before it used to be infection, once you leave the hospital, you cannot wear uniforms. You have to change your clothes before you go out of the hospitals, you know, they were quite strict at that time. 
Robin: What was it like in the miner’s hospital in the early days. Herminder: Yes, it was okay I mean, when you go to a new place, you always find it a little difficult because what happened was I didn't have a ward you see, for a whole month, wherever they were busy they used to send me there, you see. And when I had an interview, she did what do you prefer? I say I prefer surgical ward, you see, she said, it's going to be shut in a few months’ time. And I said, fine, you know, and but I noticed every time, whenever they’re busy they send me there send me to maternity, send me everywhere in the outpatient clinic. I didn't mind, but for after a month I did get a bit fed up. And I say to one of the girls, I said I'm going to leave, I’d rather apply somewhere else. I said, I'm going home really tired because whenever they’re busy, they're sending me there. And that's when they put me in a gynae ward and I didn't mind helping anyway, because, I mean, when I worked in Nottingham, I do most, most of the things because I worked in so many different places, you see and, but I, I started getting bit fed up. But then I worked in the gynae ward, I didn't mind helping at all, but that's where I stayed. I knew everybody in the hospital from the porter to everybody, because everybody to speak you see to you, you know, where you from and everybody got it, you know?
And then you come to everybody knowing it's fine. I enjoyed it, I really enjoyed it.
Perminder: So you said when you were in Nottingham and in England, people were quite rude. Herminder: Yeah to the foreign nurses, they were quite rude the way they used to speak. Not all of them, few of them there like I said oh the nurses say oh like I'm learning right first and she said, you go with the nurse, you do injections today. And like some patients say I don't want this coloured nurse to give me an injection, they were like that, you see. And it used to be up to the ward sister. In some wards they didn't mind, the sisters didn't care. And one of the gynae wards , that  sister was very strict and the patient said she had instructed me and then she said she's not going to have an injection from the coloured nurse. And she said, right, if you don't want it and she said, you suffering pain, then it's up to you. It's her duty today. After a few hours she said, I have it. And the funny thing is I said, it's only my colour I said, I don't know why you going like that. I said, you know. And I think she felt she felt a little bad there. But afterwards she was all right, you see. But it depended on the ward sister, how they were, you see. Perminder: So this was.
 Herminder: In, in Nottingham. Yeah.
Perminder: What about your experience here, did you...?
Herminder: No, no, I here no. The patients are lovely. Everybody was. I didn't even have one patient who would be rude to me or anything. No, they were really nice. I had no problem with anybody at all, actually. You know, so, there was a difference, that's the difference, I did find that you see. But that is fine, at that time, it was like that anyway, you see.
Perminder: Yeah. So, so just to sum up. So you were born in the East Africa. Came here trained in England, came to live in Wales. How do you define your culture?  Herminder: You know I, I think because I lived there all my life now most of my life so naturally, I'm fine here now. I enjoy it here, actually. You know, I'd rather not go out of Wales now. You know, I wouldn’t  move from here anyway, you know? So it's nice I mean, like, I know all my neighbours, you know, I knew all my neighbours when I was in the other estate you see. I mean, they we were just like a family. All the all our neighbours, we always looked after each other's kids. You know, if I work, my neighbour will pick my kids from school when she returns. But, you know, we had no problem like that at all. Even I moved here I came to know lot of the – I know most of the neighbours here, you know, on the estate. And I know most of them well because all our kids were the same age, they were all going to the same school, you know, so.  Channi: Can I say something? I used to call her the estate nurse. Because if anything went wrong someone would come and call her. Herminder: Yeah, yeah, because they knew I was a nurse. So if anybody didn't feel well, they'll come calling me so, like, one of the neighbours fell down, slipped on the ice, and his daughter came next door, and she said, my dad fell down, and she said oh I’ll go and call Mindy.  So I went there and, he had slipped on the ice, and he fell down by pulling the clothes on the line. And then I said, I can't move him I think he’s broken his... I said where is the pain he said it’s in my hip and I couldn't move him because when I just tried he said ow. I said have you rang the ambulance and I said ring the ambulance because we can't move him. And then the ambulance came and he said, will you help me? I said, yeah, sure. And they said, I'll have the top and you have the legs and see that you get him straight because it's so cold, you see, because it's wintertime. And he said, don't I know you from somewhere I said, yes, I'm not in the uniform I said, I'm the nurse. He said I thought I knew you.And then they just took him to the hospital. He did have a broken hip and, so yeah, they do somebody like if they don't feel well, they come knocking door you know so. You have to go and see what you can do you see.
 Like one of the men, he was very... I cannot do anything for him because he got so many problems, I said you have to ring the ambulance, and the ambulance men came and they said, they took blood and everything and paramedics came and sorted it out. 
 Perminder: Thank you very much. 
 Herminder: And you have some tea now. Perminder: You seem very happily settled in Wales. It’s so good to know this, isn't it?
Channi: Oh I love it here